Anonymous said...
This woman may have been rude, but many of us are serious about collecting art, not because we're rich, but because we love it, and we want to invest in something that has meaning in our lives. And it is very, very frustrating to deal with galleries that are simply unable or unwilling to accomodate serious collectors, who experience disappointment time and again with galleries that flake on a constant basis when it comes to dealing with buyers that can't be at a show. If you want to command high brow prices for low brow art, you have to respect your buyers. Ultimately, it's often the "bitch" who makes it possible for a Tim Biskup to command ten grand for a painting, and makes that twenty dollar Post-It that someone else bought worth much more in the future. It may be great to have just your buddies at an opening, and sell art only to whomever you've decided is deserving, but I, for one, will not patronize a gallery that decides it has the luxury to sell art based on its hasty judgement of a buyer. How very establishment to do so, and how very unappetizing.
All I wanted was a Post It... and she wouldn't give it to me... just one Post-It.
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My response if I may...
Ah so it was you, mr or ms Anonymous?
I'm also very serious about collecting art. And running a gallery store situation in LA, SF and NY is a manifestation of that. I do understand that there are people paying a lot for "low brow" art. We accomodate serious collectors as best we can, but we don't accomodate rude people. This woman was the latter. We had a simple and democratic numbering system in place, it was to be fair to everyone (I'm repeating myself), she basically wanted to jump ahead of other folks who waiting much longer.
Is this person more important because they have dinner plans? What about the other folks who waited and cancelled their plans so they could buy art? Is this woman more important than the next person because she may pay $10,000 for a Biskup piece, over the kid who worked their ass to spend $20 on a Post It? You're coming at it from the opposite side. I see that side, but in the end, we're not a huge gallery, but we are a force that has helped the same artists you're talking about increase the value of their art. Do you think we helped Takashi Murakami and Yoshitomo Nara in America? I'd like to think so, and I know since they've told me so. Did we help kozyndan and Uglydolls? Sure did. We sell product by Tim Biskup, Ryden, and Baseman. Don't you think that also helps their value go up by creating a new demand for their products, and later, their art to new people who never go to galleries? We help in ways that people never think about. But let's get back to the point.
Look at it this way, just because I eat more, or have a restaurant which buys more food than the average consumer, which helps the markets and farmers, should I be able to cut in line at a supermarket? I collect art, therefore I should be able to cut in line at an art show? No.
Your jabs and insults are noted. I would say it's very "establishment" to accomodate someone who is "cutting" and who is rude. But then again, we are a California corporation, we pay taxes, and I guess that makes us an establishment. But we're not the oppressor.
We do have our buddies there, you have a point, but we also accomodate any art buyer. We have many folks who come in and say, "I went to xx gallery, and they wouldn't sell me art even when it was available for sale." Then they say, "I'm glad you're willing to sell art to me." Reason being, the gallery was "holding" art for their collector "buddies," whether they buy it or not is another story. We don't do this either.
For our 10th anniversary show, a woman wanted to buy the Mark Ryden piece. She told me similar stories about how she can never get the chance to buy one. Guess what? We sold it to her, and I didn't know her. Do you think she was happy?
Another buyer wanted to buy some pieces sight unseen. I'd rather not do this since what if they don't like it? Are they going to return it and prevent others from buying it at the opening? Because, we wouldn't accomodate this person, they cussed us out. That's rude right? Should we have sold them more art later on? This same person came back a few times to buy more art via the same sign unseen method. It's not going to happen. Being rude isn't a calling card in my world. Being polite works for us. Do you think the artists themselves would want troublesome people to buy their art? I guarantee you, a lot wouldn't.
We do have a responsibility to try and sell art. We try the best we can to help the artist and the buyer as I have already mentioned above. When it's not $20 and with 1200 pieces, I will try and accomodate a collector. But when it's a free for all as in this case, we have to be fair. On the buyer, she could have waited 10-20 minutes, she was just a few places off from the current customer - and she knew this. We'll sell her art anytime, when it's her turn. Our judgement wasn't hasty and if she waited, she could have bought what she wanted.
I could get more rude since I think you're way off base, and likewise, you are getting rather unappetizing.
This woman may have been rude, but many of us are serious about collecting art, not because we're rich, but because we love it, and we want to invest in something that has meaning in our lives. And it is very, very frustrating to deal with galleries that are simply unable or unwilling to accomodate serious collectors, who experience disappointment time and again with galleries that flake on a constant basis when it comes to dealing with buyers that can't be at a show. If you want to command high brow prices for low brow art, you have to respect your buyers. Ultimately, it's often the "bitch" who makes it possible for a Tim Biskup to command ten grand for a painting, and makes that twenty dollar Post-It that someone else bought worth much more in the future. It may be great to have just your buddies at an opening, and sell art only to whomever you've decided is deserving, but I, for one, will not patronize a gallery that decides it has the luxury to sell art based on its hasty judgement of a buyer. How very establishment to do so, and how very unappetizing.
-----------------------
My response if I may...
Ah so it was you, mr or ms Anonymous?
I'm also very serious about collecting art. And running a gallery store situation in LA, SF and NY is a manifestation of that. I do understand that there are people paying a lot for "low brow" art. We accomodate serious collectors as best we can, but we don't accomodate rude people. This woman was the latter. We had a simple and democratic numbering system in place, it was to be fair to everyone (I'm repeating myself), she basically wanted to jump ahead of other folks who waiting much longer.
Is this person more important because they have dinner plans? What about the other folks who waited and cancelled their plans so they could buy art? Is this woman more important than the next person because she may pay $10,000 for a Biskup piece, over the kid who worked their ass to spend $20 on a Post It? You're coming at it from the opposite side. I see that side, but in the end, we're not a huge gallery, but we are a force that has helped the same artists you're talking about increase the value of their art. Do you think we helped Takashi Murakami and Yoshitomo Nara in America? I'd like to think so, and I know since they've told me so. Did we help kozyndan and Uglydolls? Sure did. We sell product by Tim Biskup, Ryden, and Baseman. Don't you think that also helps their value go up by creating a new demand for their products, and later, their art to new people who never go to galleries? We help in ways that people never think about. But let's get back to the point.
Look at it this way, just because I eat more, or have a restaurant which buys more food than the average consumer, which helps the markets and farmers, should I be able to cut in line at a supermarket? I collect art, therefore I should be able to cut in line at an art show? No.
Your jabs and insults are noted. I would say it's very "establishment" to accomodate someone who is "cutting" and who is rude. But then again, we are a California corporation, we pay taxes, and I guess that makes us an establishment. But we're not the oppressor.
We do have our buddies there, you have a point, but we also accomodate any art buyer. We have many folks who come in and say, "I went to xx gallery, and they wouldn't sell me art even when it was available for sale." Then they say, "I'm glad you're willing to sell art to me." Reason being, the gallery was "holding" art for their collector "buddies," whether they buy it or not is another story. We don't do this either.
For our 10th anniversary show, a woman wanted to buy the Mark Ryden piece. She told me similar stories about how she can never get the chance to buy one. Guess what? We sold it to her, and I didn't know her. Do you think she was happy?
Another buyer wanted to buy some pieces sight unseen. I'd rather not do this since what if they don't like it? Are they going to return it and prevent others from buying it at the opening? Because, we wouldn't accomodate this person, they cussed us out. That's rude right? Should we have sold them more art later on? This same person came back a few times to buy more art via the same sign unseen method. It's not going to happen. Being rude isn't a calling card in my world. Being polite works for us. Do you think the artists themselves would want troublesome people to buy their art? I guarantee you, a lot wouldn't.
We do have a responsibility to try and sell art. We try the best we can to help the artist and the buyer as I have already mentioned above. When it's not $20 and with 1200 pieces, I will try and accomodate a collector. But when it's a free for all as in this case, we have to be fair. On the buyer, she could have waited 10-20 minutes, she was just a few places off from the current customer - and she knew this. We'll sell her art anytime, when it's her turn. Our judgement wasn't hasty and if she waited, she could have bought what she wanted.
I could get more rude since I think you're way off base, and likewise, you are getting rather unappetizing.
posted by gr @ PERMLINK: 4:09 PM
7 Comments:
Two quick points (that are also in Eric's response):
1. Taking a number and waiting your turn has nothing to do with "hasty judgment."
2. For a show that is skewed toward first-time buyers and young art fans, leveling the privileges of regulars, insiders, etc. is just as important as having affordable prices.
-mw
Waiting is never fun, but being crappy to other people who have been waiting longer than you have means no fun for everyone.
A concise, civilized, and rational response. Go Eric!
begin rant-
Might I add, the fact that the patron in question insists on calling the collective work of so many artist "low brow" irks me. It's a label that "the establishment" uses to try to put difficult, inventive work by young artists into a box so it can be safely marketed but still kept out of the relm of "real" art.
-end rant
Well, I think that last comment pretty much sums up why some people don't want to take a number, and wait in line with a bunch of potentially really awful people that would take advantage of an online dialogue to say something that you would never dare to say in person. As an older working person, I find that I don't always enjoy being at an opening that is populated mainly by much younger people, and I can rarely make it to openings. I was not that "bitch" and I wasn't there, and I was trying to point out that if you are a gallery, you are there to make a profit, ultimately, if you want to survive. So you can be as high and mighty as you want about it, but in the end, you need the people with the money, not the people who are so busy being against the establishment that they'll never be able to buy anything other than a $20 Post-It. I don't excuse that woman being rude, but I'm willing to bet that she has been to many shows, and experienced many disappointments as a result of galleries that are not able or willing to accomodate the interested buyers. Am I wrong in thinking that this is art that hopes to survive, be taken seriously, and provide a living to its creators? It is collected by and shown in museums, and no one is labeling it "low brow" to keep it out of the "real art" world. That reveals a complete lack of understanding of the art market, and what many museums and galleries are about. And many of those people that are collecting are not able to do it in person; we rely on the galleries to keep us informed of shows, and honor the system of a buyer's list. I don't like anyone getting skipped ahead of me, but I don't like thinking that any gallery would refuse to sell someone art because they simply don't like them. No one should be able to buy every Post-It, and I think this show is a great way to get younger or less financially able buyers involved in and excited about art. But that doesn't mean you should say "No $20 art for you. This shows for all the kid that went without dinner to buy art. I'll call you next time I've got a really expensive Biskup available, though." I simply don't care for the name calling, and you sink to a level well below that woman's rudeness in doing so. You were right to not let her ahead of anyone, and she made the choice to leave. But I doubt that she will ever come back, if she has read any of this, and I don't know that it's worth it to lose a patron in order to enjoy saying some very nasty things. I think you rather destroyed any argument you had, claiming that you wanted the world to be all fair and considerate and gentlemanly, when you referred to this woman as a bitch, referenced the word several times, and then made comment about a "mother fuckin' Post-It." A gentleman would have said nothing, and been satisfied that this woman managed to purchase no art from his establishment.
Your insistence that "collectors" be given preference over others is exactly why people who appreciate GR avoid the kinds of galleries you buy from, and why folks like us (and even some of the artists) are so turned off by the "art world". The fact that all of your arguments are being made about this particular show makes it even more ridiculous! In so many ways this show is about accessibility, fair pricing, and opportunities for everyone. The arguments you've made about favoring "buyers" - which adds up to waiting lists for buying art sight unseen, preview selling, ridiculous mark-ups on "low brow" art that sells in smaller galleries for less, and galleries deciding who is and isn't worthy of hanging their merchandise on their walls, is what this particular show seems to defy with a big sqaure, sticky fuck off to snobbery!
i wasn't at the show. i would have liked to have been, though.
i think that elitist pricks who can't comprehend simple human respect in person ARE the really awful people.
the point is, you play by the rules and take a number and respectfully wait your turn and get over yourself and then you don't have to deal with any "potentially" awful people. by which point, i am not. i'm pretty great.
eric is right, and if you can't agree with him about a simple matter of a LINE, then you're a worse person than you're claiming to be. i'd be happy to say that to your face, "anonymous".
Hi Eric. My name is Chris Mostyn and I am an artists with the artdorks.com collective as well as a middle school art teacher. I am trying to use your post-it show as a model for a unit I would like to teach about collaboration. I was wondering if there was any info you could share that might be helpful other than what is posted on the GR site. Thanks alot. I have been a fan for several years of your mag and I cant wait to get to go to one of the galleries. If you go to myspace.mr_mostyn you can contact me. Peace
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